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[原创-其它] 面对非议,瑞尔森大学取消小组讨论校园言论自由

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 楼主| 发表于 2017-9-13 15:53:22 | 只看该作者
本帖最后由 黑色艺术 于 2017-9-14 16:32 编辑

Anthony Hulse · University of Calgary · 11 hrs +3
What makes this especially ironic is that Ryerson is famous for being the journalism college.http://www.ryerson.ca/programs/undergraduate/journalism/ "I think what makes Ryerson stand out, and certainly here in the School of Journalism, is our capacity to give students the experience to understand what they're doing. Everyone knows our reputation for hands-on learning, or what we call experiential learning, but that reputation is well-deserved. We make our students get out there and start interviewing people, start writing stories, start speaking truth to power."
Ann Rauhala
Associate Chair and Professor, Journalism
最讽刺的是,瑞尔森大学以其新闻学院闻名。http://www.ryerson.ca/programs/undergraduate/journalism/  
”我认为使瑞尔森新闻学院脱颖而出的是,我们有能力有经验让学生们了解自己在做什么。所有人都知道我们以在实践中学习而闻名,这种声誉是当之无愧的。我们让我们的学生走出校园,学会采访民众并撰写他们的故事,并学会对权力直言。”
Ann Rauhala                                                                                                                                           新闻系教授兼系副主任


Rick Edmonds · 10 hrs +8
The only sane voice in all this is Perterson. And according to the liberal progressive nut bars he is the problem. And they wonder why people are getting angry, just shut up sit in the corner and pay 50% plus of your wages so we have our agenda. I guess Champlain will be remove from our history books next. Maybe PET should be removed as well since his government opened 7 residential schools and remove his name from that airport in Montreal. And you can't see why people are getting angry, they shut this down because of violence. Would be from the people attending to hear what these people have to say, no it would be from the peace loving left telling people they can't speak their mind. What a bunch of hypocrites, the anger is going to build up and eventually get out of hand. Feel sorry for the younger generation, Canada will be a mess. Just waiting for Heritage Minister to come out with her new speech laws, fake news laws and our M103 committee still has to sit. Canada is working through some very difficult times and there is much more to come. I truly believe Trudeau has done much to polarize and divide this country and we are only 20 months in. Passports will be required at the Manitoba Ontario border by 2019.
在这一事件中,只有Peterson算得上理性,然而在那群“自由进步”狂人的眼里他却是大麻烦。他们不想弄清楚民众愤怒的缘由,只想要民众闭嘴乖乖坐着,并给他们50%以上的支持率以通过提案。我猜下一步就是要从历史书里删掉Champlain,也许还要加上PET,因为他的政府开了7所寄宿学校,并把他的名字从蒙特利尔机场的名字上取下来。他们用暴力阻止了讨论,还看不出来大家亚虎国际感到气愤——是因为讨论会上要发表的冒犯言论,还是讨论会被强行阻止的这一事实?真是一群伪君子。愤怒会逐渐增强,最终失去控制。我真可怜年轻一代,因为加拿大将会越来越乱。干等着文化部部长出台几部关于演讲、关于假新闻的法律,而我们的M103委员会仍然晾在一边。加拿大正在经历一阵非常困难的时期,很多事还会陆续有来。我认为特鲁多为这个国家的分裂和分化做了很多,不出20个月,到2019,出入马尼托巴-安大略边境地区将需要护照。
(译注:Champlain是魁北克的建立者 ,PET没找到,疑似加拿大历史人物,望补充。M103是加拿大日前通过的反歧视法案,M103委员会负责对社会歧视的情况进行调查)


Taysse Redux · 10 hrs +3
“Regardless of whether or not they themselves are preaching strict fascist ideology, who are they preaching to?” In other words, even if you’re not a bona fide fascist pig yourself (though that's never sure), the people listening to you are most certainly fascist pigs. It’s not freedom of speech we’re opposed to, it’s freedom of listening. We’re just trying to weed out the listeners, not the speakers. Stalin couldn’t have said it any better.
“不管他们是否在宣传严格意义上的法西斯思想,他们又是在向谁宣传呢?”“换句话说,即使你自己不是一只真正的法西斯猪(尽管不能确定),听你说话的人肯定是法西斯猪。我们反对的不是言论自由,而是倾听的自由。斯大林说得好啊:我们只是在试图淘汰听众,而不是演讲者。


Joe Hvilivitzky · Chippawa, Ontario · 10 hrs +7
Faith Goldy and Jordan Peterson are now considered fascists? If I could find my Ryerson diploma (RTA '67) I'd send it back.
Faith Goldy和Jordan Peterson现在被认为是法西斯了吗?如果我能找到我的瑞尔森大学文凭(RTA传媒学院67年毕业)就把它还回去。

Vladimir Smejkal · 9 hrs
Chances are you don't have any diplomas...
你很可能并没有什么文凭……


Len Van Den Bosch · Plymouth University · 10 hrs +3
Liberals want fairness and justice. Liberals want income equality so everyone can have a good life. Why do liberals never talk about the unequal pay between public sector employees and private sector workers? Why the silence?
I think we know the reason, don't we.
自由主义者想要公平和正义。自由主义者希望收入平等,这样每个人都能过上好日子。亚虎国际自由主义者从不谈论公共
部门雇员和私营部门工人之间的不平等薪酬?亚虎国际对此沉默?
我想我们都知道。


Kyle Anders · Waterloo, Ontario · 10 hrs +8
Looks like the takeaway lesson from Charlottsville has been declared: free speech is no longer allowed. Good job ANTIFA, you've miraculously transformed into exactly what you (allegedly) opposed.
看来,在夏洛茨维尔发生的事给我们的启示已经表明:不再允许言论自由。干得漂亮,反法西斯者们,你已经奇迹般地变成了你的对立面。


Tom Steadman · Works at Self-Employed · 10 hrs +5
Egregious, spineless administrators. I am ashamed that my school would profess such mediocre thinking. Puts them on the notorious list alongside Laurier, McGill, Concordia, U of Ottawa and the rest of academic fear mongering.
校方又坏又懦弱。很惭愧我的母校竟然会声明这种差劲的思想。瑞尔森可以跟臭名昭著的劳瑞尔、麦吉尔、康考迪亚、渥太华及其他利益压倒学术的大学相提并论了。


Warren Yuill · 10 hrs +4
Nobody expected anything less than total capitulation from Ryerson.
所有人都希望瑞尔森大学投降。


Sandi Nickerson · 10 hrs +6
This discussion was going to be protested and shut down regardless, as they have been up until now, but the opportunists have jumped on Charlottesville in order to move the goalposts from tired claims of bigot and oppressor to fascist and Nazi, either too obtuse or too dense to realize one of the panelists they're lumping in with Nazis is himself Jewish. But hey, they can hoist that Soviet flag in the name of tolerance, I'm sure that will help them find the plot again. This would all be quite funny if it wasn't so asinine.
虽然撑到了现在,但这个讨论会无论如何都会在抗议下取消的。投机者们已经开始利用夏洛茨维尔的事,把口号从反对偏见与压迫转移成反法西斯了,虽说他们要么太钝要么太傻,以至于将一个犹太人形容为“纳粹”。但是嘛,他们大可以用宽容的名义升起一面苏联国旗,这一举措定能帮助他们发现另一宗“阴谋”——如果不是实在蠢到家了,其实倒还算满可笑的。


Vladimir Smejkal · 10 hrs
No need to let fascists, racists and cret!ns on the lose discuss anything. There is no controversy, no argument, no merit in it and therefore there is no bloody reason for it, just like there is no need to discuss the benefits of holocausts, reasons for outlawing racism, or pros and cons of shredding our Constitution. In this country freedom of speach has its legal and moral limits, racial discrimination is illegal and being a racist cry baby is not a virtue. Get it all you sick morons?
没有必要让法西斯、种族主义者和笨蛋们去讨论什么问题。这样的讨论没有任何好处,TMD也没有任何意义。就好像没有必要去讨论大屠杀有什么好处,讨论是否禁止种族歧视或者破坏宪法有什么优劣一样。在这个国家里,言论自由有其法律和道德的界限,种族歧视是非法的,而当一个又哭又闹的种族主义者并不光荣。懂了吗,你们这些病态的白痴。


Carol Tencza · 10 hrs +2
I think the facists were the one's giving the "push back".
我想,抗议的那群人自己就是法西斯。


George Tsoporis · Toronto, Ontario · 10 hrs +2
You have a right to free speech. You do not have a right to a platform. Also, Peterson is a dreadful bore. Just listen to some of his incoherent and rambling YouTube lectures. Faith Goldy likes fascist politics in Greece. Who wants to hear these people espouse their bigotry? 'Free speech,' as it is being used these days, seems like code for 'alt-right,' neo-nazi, white supremist. Congrats to Ryerson for not giving these buffoons and racists the legitimacy of an academic setting.
你有权利发表任何言论,但你不一定有权利在公共平台上传播它。况且,Peterso是个惹人厌的家伙,你去YouTube听听他那语无伦次、杂乱无章的讲座。而Faith Goldy喜欢希腊的法西斯政治。谁想听到这些人去吹嘘他们的偏见呢?这些日子以来,”言论自由”好像变成了右翼新纳粹头子的座右铭了。瑞尔森不给予这些小丑和种族主义者学术合法性是值得肯定的。

George Hong · Toronto, Ontario · 8 hrs
How can you like Star Trek and be like this.
一个《星际迷航》的粉怎么会是这幅德性。(译注:LS的ID是《星际迷航》中的人物角色)


Bruce Davie · Simon Fraser University · 10 hrs +8
"Peterson repeatedly echoed U.S. President Donald Trump’s assertion that ideologues on both sides were responsible for violence."

I love (sacastic) the way MSM uses wordings like this to position a very fair-minded person like Prof Peterson on the L/R continuum next to Trump. I do not think Peterson's position is aligned with Trump's.

Peterson is a revelation. I hope people listen to what he says. He is NOT alt-right. In fact, to label him as such is an insult to his core-being.
“Peterson多次引用美国总统唐纳德·特朗普的说法,称意识形态对立的双方都应为引起的暴力事件负责。”
这些媒体装作理客中,玩弄春秋笔法搞得Peterson教授的政治倾向跟川普一样,太精彩了(讽刺)。我认为彼得森的立场与特朗普的立场根本不一致。
彼得森是个启示者。我希望人们去听听他的话。他不是极右。事实上,给他贴上这样的标签是对他本质上的侮辱。


David Stymeist · University of Toronto · 9 hrs +3
Forget about Law and the Charter. Antifa decides what can and can not happen; who may speak and who may not.

Believe everything you are told. The ideological cadres know best.
Think right. Speak correct
忘记法律和《宪章》吧。让反法西斯者来决定什么能做什么不能发生;谁可以说谁不可以。
相信他们跟你讲的一切,因为思想长官无所不知。
学会正确地思想,正确地说话。


Vladimir Smejkal · 9 hrs
What were they going to discuss? Merits of white race supremacy? Merits of a appartheid system? Racial discrimination of Whites?
I guess all valid topics, but no thanks. An asylum would a much better venue.
他们打算讨论什么?白人至上的优点?种族隔离的好处?白人的种族歧视?
我想他们通通要讨论一遍,但还是免了吧,他们还是更合适去精神病院演讲。

Winnie Holland · 9 hrs
I doubt your obsessions would have been considered worthy of discussion
我怀疑你的困扰有没有讨论的价值。

Peter Poutine · Works at Self-Employed · 5 hrs
"An asylum would a much better venue."
-------------------------------------
Good idea, admitting yourself is usually better than the other option. They may let you out someday.
他们还是更合适去精神病院演讲。
说得好,起码你勇于承认,也许哪天精神病院放你出来。


Winnie Holland · 9 hrs +3
Freedom of expression is under attack and the media is complicit in the attacks.
Wake up before it is too late!
表达的自由被群起而攻之,而媒体也在推波助澜,现在觉醒为时未晚!


Winnie Holland · 9 hrs
Diversity of opinion is more important than any other aspect of diversity.
观点的多样性比任何观点都要重要。


Darren Kranz · Brock University · 9 hrs +2
Can we take a vote to have Claude and Vladimar banned from the National Post?
我们能投票禁止Claude与Vladimar进来吗?

Bob Perreault · University of Waterloo · 7 hrs
Please
拜托啦



Wil Cee · 9 hrs +3
How is Faith Goldy "far-right"? How does the writer define "far-right"? Explain that to me.
Faith Goldy是怎么个“极右”法?作者又是怎么定义“极右”的?给我解释解释吧。


Maria Peters · 9 hrs +1
Maybe it is time to ask our government why Canada voted against the resolution of UN,condemning all fascist symbols?!
或者该问问我们的政府亚虎国际要投票否决联合国有关禁止一切法西斯符号的决议。


Dave Patterson · 9 hrs +6
- fascism also starts with demonizing people who say things you don't like, and attacking 'free' speech. and creating mobs of really, really stupid people running around breaking things. Sound like anyone you know?
法西斯主义一开始也是将说“不快”言论的人妖魔化,并攻击那些“自由”的演讲。从而创造出一群只懂得制造混乱的白痴,。听起来耳熟吗?


Dave Patterson · 9 hrs +1
probably way too late for any sane discussion here, but people really need to start understanding what is really going on here, which I take a deeper look at here - It's not 'the left' trying to take over the world and shut down free speech and all that other bad stuff - it's 'the right'!! -http://www.rudemacedon.ca/vgi/ba ... t%20plot%20omg.html
这里进行的许多明智的讨论也许已经太晚了,但人们确实需要去理解这里到底发生了什么事情。我仔细地观察,发现原来这不是“左派”在破坏言论自由和所有其他的“坏东西”并试图接管世界,这是“做正确的事”!!


Terry Rogers · Guzzling Beer at MGTOW Headquarters · 9 hrs
A university is no place for the free exchange of ideas!
大学不再是自由交流思想的场所!

Peter Poutine · Works at Self-Employed · 5 hrs +1
Carefull, people here don't necessarily understand some aspects of the English language. The ones found in the "S" section of the dictionary.
小心点,这里的人们不一定了解英语的某些方面,比如S开头的某个词。


Jake Stonehenge · Toronto, Ontario · 9 hrs +1
Definately trudeau supporters..
绝对是特鲁多的支持者……


Phred Farkle · 9 hrs
Let's let these loons of the Left get their names out there. No employer with a brain will ever hire them. Thank God for the Internet and easy background checks.
去人肉这些左派狂人并把他们的名字公布出来,看看有哪个老板会雇佣他们。感谢老天还有互联网与简单的背景调查。


Everett Duncan · Austin, Texas · 9 hrs +1
Peterson "echoing Trump?!" Jeez, guess they had to come up with somthing since his erudition gave them no quotable purchase, not even out of context. Meanwhile, that Christeen Elizabeth, she can't even muster of enough for them to polish before doubling back. Surreal indeed, Dr. Pererson. The irony.
Peterson “附和特朗普?!“哎呀哎呀,我猜因为Peterson 的渊博学识让他们无缝可钻,所以不得不断章取义地编造故事。同时,那个Christeen Elizabeth,她甚至不能在回头之前集合足够的人来充充脸面。的确很超现实,Pererson博士。真是讽刺。


Andrew Spencer · 8 hrs +2
So tell me again who the totalitarians are...所以说谁才是集权主义者……


Rick Lauridsen-Hoegh · Concordia/Ottawa U · 8 hrs +2
So Ryerson (in the left corner - representing the left) is willing to silence the reasonable and the right. How noble and enlightened of them. Sad to see how far we have fallen.
所以瑞尔森情愿让公道与正确缄默,多么开明高尚啊。看到我们堕落如斯真是难过。

George Hong · Toronto, Ontario · 8 hrs +4
Sheesh, Vladimir or Claude do you have any evidence at all that the 4 speakers talking about freedom of speech are racists, fascists or nazis? Are you two comparing Canada to Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union? Can't you tell Saad and Peterson are classical liberals? Elizabeth is doing the usual Social Justice Warrior leftist thing of defining every little thing as violence. You two are old enough to know better. Can't you tell her own behaviour smells bad? Or are you letting it slide in the name of your cause? I hope we figure it out eventually.
他妈的,Vladimir 跟Claude,你们有什么证据表明那四个人谈论言论自由就是种族主义者、法西斯主义者或纳粹?你们两个把加拿大比作纳粹德国还是苏联?你难道看不出来Saad 和Peterson 是古典自由主义者吗?伊丽莎白做的正是社会正义斗士经常干的事——把每一件小事都定义为暴力。而你们两个都是成年人,对世事应该有了更深的了解。你们难道看不出来她的行为的恶劣之处吗?还是说你们拿钱发帖所以对此视而不见?我希望我们最终能搞清楚。


Stephen Chen · 8 hrs +2
For those of you who don't know, Ryerson is the the most left wing school in Ontario if not all of Canada. There's a reason we used to call it Rye High. And by high I mean high school.
跟那些不了解的人讲一下,瑞尔森在安大略,乃至整个加拿大,都是数一数二的左翼学校。我们以前称其为“瑞高”,高指的是高中。


Paul Cerar · Toronto, Ontario · 8 hrs +2
I hope Professor Peterson, and the rest of the pro-democracy panel, smarten up, and sue every fascist who slanders them!
我希望Professor教授与民主讨论会的其他人联合起来,控告那些诋毁他们的法西斯!


Norman Wells · 8 hrs +1
Point proven. No free speech on campus unless approved.
证明了一个观点。没被允许校园里就没有言论自由。


Richard Silliker · Hamilton, Ontario · 8 hrs
Just another bunch of people who are lazy with thier words and ideas. The whole "left" ideaology can be printed on a t-shirt. "Only I am right"
又是一群不会表达的人。“左派思想”的要点等同于”只有我才是对的”,把这句话印在T恤上吧。

Peter Poutine · Works at Self-Employed · 5 hrs
you could get a t-shirt like mine which reads Ï'm not trying to offend you, that part is just a bonus".
你可以像我一样搞件T恤,上面印着“我不是想要冒犯你,只是一点额外奖励”


Ron Drysdale · Brandon University · 7 hrs
"Rye High" ... the most low-level "University" in Canada ... the nickname (coined I think by its own grads) does a dis-service to a lot of really good high-schools in Canada. Not at all vigorous, but they did produce some skilled technicians "back in the day" ... :(
“瑞高”…加拿大最低级的“大学”…这个外号(我认为是由它自己的毕业生创造的)是对加拿大众多好中学的诋毁。虽然死气沉沉的,但是过去还是为社会提供了不少技术工人(哀)。

Peter Poutine · Works at Self-Employed · 5 hrs
Yep, some of those secretaries are still servicing their industry.
是啊,比如一些秘书还在干他们那行呢。


Cindy Parker · Secretary at Self employed · 6 hrs +2
Just how sad is this in our Canada?? I never thought I would live to see the day that speakers would not be allowed at a Canadian University. Shut down by gutless administrators and the alt left activists that think it's ok to scream down anything they don't like, pull fire alarms and threaten violence. Where is our Government, never mind, taking selfies...where is our law enforcement, never mind, bellboys on our border less country. Oh Canada, We forgot to stand on guard for thee!
我们加拿大有多么可悲?我从没想过会看到在加拿大会有大学不允许演讲者发言的一天。胆小的校方跟左翼激进分子们以为可以用吵闹盖过他们不喜欢的东西,用暴力和纵火进行威胁。我们的政府呢?哦,在忙着自拍呢…我们的执法部门呢?哦,在边境给人当跟班呢。加拿大,我们没有守卫好你!

Carol Tencza · 6 hrs
Thank you. A few of have some sanity left... pun not intended.
谢谢你,少数理智尚存的人……不是要故意打双关语。


Bruce Vereshagen · 6 hrs +3
So, if I am understanding this correctly, Ryerson was going to have a panel discussion on a perceived issue around Ryerson stifling right of centre views on campus by caving in to the demands of left wing activists threatening violence, but then decided to cancel the discussion because left wing activists threatened violence? Is that about right? Please tell me I have been asleep for eight and a half months and this is an April Fools article. Do people actually pay money to attend this clown circus?
所以,如果我没理解错的话,瑞尔森大学因为日前左派激进者暴力威胁而要开展一个讨论,但后来因为左翼激进分子暴力威胁而决定取消讨论,对吧?请告诉我我睡糊涂了,看了愚人节的报道。难道人们是在付费看马戏团的小丑演出吗?


Alex Dennison · 4 hrs
As usual the university administrators buckle under pressure from the SJWs and cite "public safety" as the reason for cancelling the event. Pathetic.
与往常一样,大学官方在压力下屈服,以“公共安全”为理由取消了活动,可悲啊。


John Rebelo · Owner at Self-Employed · 4 hrs
I read the article... I read all comments. Yes, I am absolutely convinced this Liberal Marxism/Postmodernism... ideology(?) which presently controls the Administration Offices, Faculty and Campuses of most Canadian, American and European Universities trully is a mental sickness. What's happening to the people who are supposed to be our future...???
我读了这篇文章…我也读了所有的评论。是的,我完全相信这种控制了美国和欧洲的大学以及加拿大的大部分校园的自由马克思主义/后现代主义…的意识形态(?)(译:?)是一种精神病。那些我们未来社会的主人翁身上发生了什么……???


Susan Young · Toronto, Ontario · 3 hrs
It is the leftists who are the fascists. That is what is so Orwellian about this. None of those speakers are fascists and I have listened to all of them in varying degrees. It is those who shut down debate and free expression who are the fascists.
这些左派正是法西斯。奥威尔就是这么想的。讨论组的发言者中没有哪一个是法西斯主义者,我在不同程度上都听取了他们的意见。那些关闭辩论和言论自由的人才是法西斯分子。


Andrew Zubriczky · CEO & Founder at Get Google First Page Results · 3 hrs
When are people going to wake up to the disarming reality that 'Freedom of Speech', 'Liberty' , and 'Equality' do NOT exist in our present society, they are merely idealistic constructs that hold no power over people any longer. Instead, they only serve to anger and alienate. What is the world coming to?
人们什么时候才能清醒地意识到所谓言论自由让人遗憾的现实,“自由”和“平等”仅仅是一个理想中的概念,现实中根本不存在,如今这两个名词不能再使人民免于被权利凌驾于头上,反而使人民相互仇恨与疏远。世界在走向何方?


Ivo Kintobor · 2 hrs
Do it in Calgary. U of C.
在卡尔加里大学也这么干。


Cole Jones · Works at Paper Street Soap Company · 1 hr
So I take Ryerson = UQAM for all intents and purposes? When do the riots start?
所以我完全可以把瑞尔森等同于魁北克大学?暴乱什么时候开始?


GS Chaban · 36 mins
"Violence is contextual." What does that even mean, Elizabeth? If I'm a vegan, does slicing carrots equate violence? What about if I love the Habs and someone says that they hate their red sweaters? Should I be going to a tribunal? If there's discussion I don't like, let me hear it so I know what and where it is.

伊丽莎白,什么叫做“暴力会产生连锁反应”?一个素食主义者把胡萝卜切成片也是暴力吗?如果我喜欢红色而大家讨厌红色的话,我改被抓起来审判吗?如果有一个让我反感的讨论会,我倒是宁愿去听一下,这样我才知道亚虎国际要讨厌。

If a group of Antifa is deciding for me, I'm well aware of at least one hate group that's crushing freedom
如果我被一个反法西斯群体代表了,那么起码我知道了有那么一群讨厌鬼在破坏自由。

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参与人数 1金钱 +700 收起 理由
龙腾网翻译版务 + 700 感谢翻译,感谢对龙腾网的支持。
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沙发
发表于 2017-9-13 16:32:15 | 只看该作者
译文真长,良心翻译啊
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板凳
发表于 2017-9-13 17:04:23 | 只看该作者
言论自由应该建立在法律和社会道德允许的情况下。你可以反对ZF的政策,提出自己的意见,但是你不能发表一些煽动,仇视其他民族,种族的言论。你去美国大街高喊,黑人亚洲人滚出美国,低等种族试试看, 你去日本高喊,天皇吃屎,取消皇室试试,所以有些香港人的言论早就超出了言论自由的范畴,打着言论自由旗帜,发表港独,发表仇视亚虎国际娱乐大陆人的言论。但是从来没受到过严惩。真的不能继续放任下去了。大陆可能受限于一国两制政策,没办法管,但香港政府完全有权利管。
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地板
发表于 2017-9-13 17:05:06 | 只看该作者
呵呵,管理者终究是知道什么手法古典而有效,也许这也证明了古来二舌之徒系代出?世界的保守化回潮对亚虎国际娱乐而言利弊如何可以进一步细看。
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5#
发表于 2017-9-13 18:00:34 | 只看该作者
影响欧洲团结稳定的“纳粹主义”言论应该被抹杀,而影响亚虎国际娱乐团结稳定的“分裂”言论就是“自由之声”??西方人果然是双重标准!
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6#
发表于 2017-9-13 18:25:47 | 只看该作者
jeanyue888 发表于 2017-9-13 17:04
言论自由应该建立在法律和社会道德允许的情况下。你可以反对ZF的政策,提出自己的意见,但是你不能发表一些 ...

其实香港所谓言论自由是被西方意识形态绑架了。

很简单因为民主的解释权在人家西方手里,现在苏格兰人都要独立,民主旗帜的先锋英国佬都不得不让人家公投,自然解释了所谓民主框架下可以进行所谓民族、领土独立这个事。

所以在根本上不应该在民主这个圈子里反驳他们,直接用法律武器定性,找几个茬搞臭他。
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7#
发表于 2017-9-13 19:10:45 | 只看该作者
执迷不悟,唉
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8#
发表于 2017-9-13 20:43:03 | 只看该作者

「有一个斯巴达妇女的五个儿子都在军队里,她等待着战事的消息。一个奴隶来了,她战栗地问他。『你的五个儿子都战死了。』『贱奴,谁问你这个?』『我们已经胜利了!』于是,这位母亲便跑到庙里去感谢神灵。这样的人就是公民。」——卢梭《爱弥儿》

古典意义上的言论自由和公民权都是排他的,此两者不属于奴隶和异邦人。罗马共和国和雅典共和国都是典型的范例,所以他们能够对外扩张,征服异族。美国早期的历史中把印第安人送进集中营、排斥东亚移民正是这个共和国活力的体现。言论自由当然存在边界,先有共同体而后有自由。这个道理,北美白人的祖先是明白的,只是他们不会想到自己的后人会蠢得如此无药可救。
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9#
发表于 2017-9-13 21:04:59 | 只看该作者
简单点说,还是那个梗。闭嘴!!!!我们在讨论自由,谁让你说话了!!!
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10#
发表于 2017-9-14 00:17:53 | 只看该作者
我现在有点担心这种事的最终结尾会不会是希墨早生了或者说当年种的因最终结果,物极必反?
人类史上最大规模的种族战争信仰战争(包括核弹使用)?

祝福可能万一走到那一天的世界,走到那一天的亚虎国际娱乐
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11#
发表于 2017-9-14 03:42:40 | 只看该作者
我再ryson旁边的ut,多大。
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12#
发表于 2017-9-14 03:42:53 | 只看该作者
我在ryson旁边的ut,多大。
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13#
发表于 2017-9-14 08:08:15 龙腾移动网页版 | 只看该作者
星辰中的海兵 发表于 2017-9-14 00:17
我现在有点担心这种事的最终结尾会不会是希墨早生了或者说当年种的因最终结果,物极必反?
人类史上最大规 ...

没事,还有毛子顶着,美国纳粹了也跨不过太平洋
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14#
发表于 2017-9-14 08:35:22 | 只看该作者
随着经济的衰退,欧洲变得保守化,迟早会再次诞生掌控全国的右翼组织。到时候为了转移矛盾,驱赶中东人、发动战争,都是可以想象的。
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15#
发表于 2017-9-14 09:18:23 | 只看该作者
yzcdragon 发表于 2017-9-13 18:25
其实香港所谓言论自由是被西方意识形态绑架了。

很简单因为民主的解释权在人家西方手里,现在苏格兰人 ...

可是苏格兰本来就跟香港的情况根本不同,英国本来就是联邦,亚虎国际娱乐可不是
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16#
发表于 2017-9-14 09:24:08 | 只看该作者
我们在讨论言论自由,所以请你闭嘴。
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17#
发表于 2017-9-14 10:12:18 | 只看该作者
不知道香港黄丝看见有什么感想。。。。。。。
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18#
发表于 2017-9-14 10:29:23 | 只看该作者
星辰中的海兵 发表于 2017-9-14 00:17
我现在有点担心这种事的最终结尾会不会是希墨早生了或者说当年种的因最终结果,物极必反?
人类史上最大规 ...

古代有五帝白帝、青帝、黄帝、炎帝,黑帝就是五大人种,这么多年终于棕种人退场,不剩下一永不完结
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19#
发表于 2017-9-19 14:16:24 龙腾移动网页版 | 只看该作者
这群人是自大到无边以至于智力受到了严重损伤,不懂得一个人的自由是以牺牲某个人的利益为前提的吗?还是所有的自由主义者都特么只看中自己的利益?
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20#
发表于 2017-9-19 14:22:47 龙腾移动网页版 | 只看该作者
左右互搏最好玩了
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21#
发表于 2017-9-21 18:48:05 | 只看该作者
现在开始意识形态混乱了?好事情
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